|
Relic, The (1997)
IMDB rating: 5.20
Plot: A researcher at Chicago’s Natural History Museum returns from South America with some crates containing his findings. When the crates arrive at the museum without the owner there appears to be very little inside. However, police discover gruesome murders on the cargo ship that brought the crates to the US and then another murder in the museum itself. Investigating the murders is Lt. Vincent D’Agosta who enlists the help of Dr. Margo Green at the museum – she has taken an interest in the contents of her colleague’s crates. Unknown to both there is a large creature roaming the museum which is gearing itself up for a benefit reception which the city’s mayor is to attend.
|
Directors: Hyams Peter
Actors: Sizemore Tom,Whitmore James,Rohner Clayton,Lo Chi Moui,Ryan Thomas,Lesser Robert,Van Bergen Lewis,McCarthy Francis X.,Kapelos John,Wells Tico,Horror,Thriller,
Atheists only: is there any hard evidence to prove that Jesus existed?
I hear a lot say yeah he did exist, but then there isn’t any evidence to suggest that the Jesus described by Christians (excluding the miracles of course) existed. Pontius Pilate’s Roman records never show him executing a man named Jesus, there are no actual relics of Jesus and there aren’t any contemporary writings of him or anyone claiming to have met an Earthy Jesus. Again I’m just asking atheists, cause they’re the only ones that won’t give me the bible or pseudo science like the Shroud of Turin as "evidence".
I just wanted to educate myself as to whether or not it is accepted and verifiable that Jesus did exist.
THERE ARE NO PICS SO IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!!
| Jan 27, 2010
nope.
cleverity | Jan 27, 2010
None I’m aware of…
interested1208 | Jan 27, 2010
None whatsoever.
This isn’t to say he 100% didn’t exist – but there’s certainly no evidence that he did.
(PS: Ignore any references to Jospehus, Tacitus, Pliny etc. Only people who know next to nothing about the subject think they provide proof. They don’t).
God's Ho | Jan 27, 2010
your asking the wrong question. the subject is religion, not history. it is a ‘faith’, logic does not play a part…
Paul | Jan 27, 2010
Most experts think a man named Jesus did exist but that he was rather different than the man presented in the Gospels. And, no, there is no hard evidence of his existence.
Mailman Fred | Jan 27, 2010
yess there little is proof he "existed" but no proof of his healings too be true!
Mani | Jan 27, 2010
There is no primary historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth existed of which I’m aware.
However, given the cumulation of stories referring to him, and secondary historical evidence, it seems reasonable to conclude such a person did exist, and had experiences upon which the documents known as the Gospels are based, though the Gospels must be taken as the addative mythology they are.
J.P. | Jan 27, 2010
outside of the bible there is no evidence. it is very likely he is a composite character based mainly on the roman god mithras
Michael | Jan 27, 2010
I am not aware of any hard evidence. Because of the existence of the New Testament, however, I believe that a person existed that is now referred to as "Jesus" and that he was a revolutionary figure during the initial part of the decline of the Roman Empire.
IanCorrigible | Jan 27, 2010
Oh come on, atheists only? Someone is closing their ears to the truth. An earthy Jesus that’s funny.
Alexis | Jan 27, 2010
The story of Jesus is definitely not able to be proven. However there may have been someone who lived a similar, more realistic life, minus the mumbo jumbo.
Baka | Jan 27, 2010
Hard evidence, no. Circumstantial evidence, yeah.
Studies of religions throughout the world suggest that people rarely invent teachers, leaders, prophets, etc. What they do, however, is take these real people and endow them with super human powers, with super natural relationships. Children of god (David karesh), God’s favorite, born of a god and a human. etc.
So a man named Jesus likely lived, he likely pissed off the right people and was likely killed. Given that he was jewish and 30, he would likely have been a husband and grandfather, as it’s not accepted in Judaism to be celibate your whole life.
All that is mearly "likely", not "fact", though.
Tanya | Jan 27, 2010
Not only is there no evidence supporting the claim that Jesus existed, but significant evidence refutes the claim. Sources below.
neil s | Jan 27, 2010
Read Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and make your own decision. He was an atheist when he was researching for and writing this book.
Hannah | Jan 27, 2010
There’s no verifiable evidence that Jesus ever lived.No records exist verifying anything in the gospels.No one that wrote of Jesus (Josephus,etc) was alive at the time of his alleged life.
jethom33545 | Jan 27, 2010
There’s absolutely nothing other then what some people stand by as a gospel in their life written by a few different authors in a time where the factions of anything scientific were based around magical beings. It’s like believing the world is flat because there is a few documents where early day scientists have said it was flat, when however evidence stacks up that it isn’t.
As for jesus, i’m guessing it was just a man, probably schizophrenic, that went around saying he was the son of god and due to hi condition believed in it so deeply other naive people did too and it escalated with stories etc.
Doctor Sam | Jan 27, 2010
i’m not a christian and i believe that Jesus absolutely existed as a wandering Jewish prophet but not the mythical Christ who died for everyones sins because there are plenty of religious scholars with PHDs who graduated from reputable non christian universities who investigated the existence of Jesus and his life. the Jesus Seminar below investigated what they think Jesus actually said vs. what the Bible claims.
joe714 | Jan 27, 2010
No, there isn’t.
I get a real kick out of the christians who answer such a question saying, "Historians have accepted jesus as a real person throughout history." First that’s not true by any means (even christian historians debated his actual existence as early as 120 CE!), and it ignores the fact that for a very long time in the western world, questioning the existence of magic jesus would get you burned at the stake…
Honest scholarship without any starting assumptions is absolutely skeptical of a "real" jesus. As they should be — because there’s no hard evidence and no soft evidence.
Peace.
WellTraveledProg | Jan 27, 2010
There’s absolutely no hard evidence whatsoever.
But I like to think that there was an actual person, or persons that the New Testament is based on.
It’s just that "God" thing I have a problem with..
Son of a PropReno | Jan 27, 2010
Not really, no.
There is no documentation about his birth, life, or death, outside of the Christian texts. Not even a minor side note created by the Romans.
There are some speculative stories, which could be just that, stories, but nothing concrete.
My favorite of said stories is about a Buddhist Temple in India with the names of the students of Buddhism written in a book. There is the name (which has been carbon dated to the time Jesus would have been in his late teens, early twenties) of Jesus of Nazareth. SOME theologians believe this makes sense in regards to his teachings of peace and love – as those ideas are foreign when compared to the OT.
Again, this story is speculative at best – so each person is left to make the decision on if they believe them or not.
Personally, I think the legacy of his teachings alone is much more important than if he existed or not. While even if we can prove he did not exist, the movement he stated can’t be stopped.
You can kill the man, but not his messages.
Daniel – je veux ton amour | Jan 27, 2010
Yes there is plenty of evidence that Jesus existed. In fact lots of people where calling themselves the messiah during those times (like many think the end of the world is near); however I don’t think the Jesus of the Bible existed in full, because I believe a lot of what was written down was manipulated by the Churchs and the Paulists that came after Jesus.
These were the days way before computer recording of history. The existence of Jesus can be doubted or it or he can be believed in. The point of the matter is how will it effect your life to believe that Jesus existed? How will it effect your intelligence? And how does believing in Jesus matter to you at all? Also, what parts of the story of Jesus are to be trusted? All them, parts of them, selections of them, one’s that concur with other philosophies of man elsewhere?
?osh A?fred ? ?og?S ? | Jan 27, 2010
Most people have already said it, but i feel like putting in my two cents worth…
There is evidence that someone by the name of "Jesus" existed around that time (several someones, in fact). The Jesus of the gospels appears to be largely fabricated, being based heavily on earlier "saviour" myths, such as Mithras and Horus.
Tristan's War On Ignorance | Jan 27, 2010
There is none. Believers make a big deal out of archeological "evidence" of houses and pottery shards from the time of Jesus as proving Jesus, but no one disputes the fact that people lived in the Middle East during that time period. There are NO records of any kind written during the alleged lifetime of Jesus talking about the things that are alleged to have been going on. There are many, many documents about every day contemporary life in the regions where he supposedly preached, but there isn’t one that says anything about this Rabbi and his miracles and tirades in the temples, etc., upsetting the Romans. Granted, not every record can survive, but there are enough of them from the time where you’d think something that fantastic would have been mentioned far and wide as claimed in the documents written some 60 years after his death.
I think if there was a man, which I am willing to concede there could have been, he was not as wonderful and wondrous and pious and holy, and blah, blah, blah as time and tradition built him up to be. And definitely not the offspring of some magic man in the sky. Just another charismatic Jewish cult leader.
misslabeled | Jan 27, 2010
well, i am a christian now, i never was until this year, so i have a lot to say! okay, so all of the stuff that happened to moses, could have actually happened. there is a trick that peopl ehave learned to do now to make a snake looke like stick, then throw it on the ground, and it start to move again, the the nile river turning red happens during a certain type of storm, and those could be scientifically explained to not be god, but the pharoahs first born son dying, is true. he was perfectly healthy and died on the night god said it would. he was not murdered or poisened, becauses the pharoah shut him away that whole night and kept watch, but we know that he actually ded because on a monument, tht i dont remember the name of, it has the pharoahs writing saying his son has died mysteriously and it matches the date moses did theses things. but other than moses, jesus was a real person and tht is a fact, its just tht ppl dont believe he was the son of god.There is no question that the man Jesus did in fact exist and that his followers were loyal and that he was killed in much the way described, but there is much myth and exaggeration associated with Christian dogma. do some research, and you will see more. it certainly talked me into it…and i was no where close to being one.
Ashlyn | Jan 27, 2010
I find it really quite bizarre that, as an atheist, I find myself increasingly drawn to respond to religious questions. I’ve just checked online and there are approximately 2.1 billion Christians worldwide. But not a single one of them could provide irrefutable proof that god or jesus (lower case intended) exist or existed. However, as an individual, I can categorically state that god or jesus have not manifested, as there is not definitive proof of this.
‘Religion is a kind of spiritual gin in which the slaves of capital drown their human shape and their claims to any decent life’ (Lenin).
MarkMyWords | Jan 27, 2010
Hard evidence? Not really. But the same could be said of plenty of people from the ancient world. Socrates left no writings of his own. No one has Cleopatra’s bones. What we know about Pontius Pilate (apart from the Bible) would fit on a 3 x 5 card. The first and only archeological (i.e. hard) evidence of the existence of Pontius Pilate was discovered only in 1961.
I think it is more reasonable to believe that a man named Jesus lived in the early 1st century than that he did not. Certainly the vast majority of historians and scholars feel the existence of Jesus is established beyond any reasonable doubt.
I’m an atheist, but I believe a historical Jesus existed.
miskatonic_president | Jan 27, 2010
Well, there’s no evidence for the existence of most people who actually did exist in the distant past.
It’s my understanding that those who believe in the historical Jesus claim that wasn’t his name (that is, there was a preacher who the New Testament writings were about, but his name was an Aramaic version of Joshua — Yesuah or some such name).
There’s a book that came out a year or so ago that argues that there was no such person at all. Sorry, I don’t remember the name of the book, but I bet you could do some amazon searching to find it.
I, myself, have no opinion as to whether or not there was a real "Jesus" as I haven’t made a study of the topic. (Don’t really care, to tell you the truth — I guess it’s mildly interesting, but not worth my devoting time to.)
Part of the problem, as I understand it, is the people’s names (whatever Jesus’s name really was, the version of Mary that his mom was, and Joseph) were all really common at the time, so there could easily have been a lot of families with those names. Figuring out whether one of those families was the "right" one would be really hard to do.
And at that time, there were a lot of people preaching and teaching various version of Judaism; it would be hard to figure out which, if any, mapped on to a historical Jesus.
(Good luck with not getting the Bible quoted at you; people do NOT refrain from questions asked of groups they don’t belong to.)
Edited to add: Jesus Myth! That was the book I was referring to, which another answerer supplied. Maybe get your hands on one of the "yes he did" and "no he didn’t" books, and see which makes the stronger case.
The bit about people tending not to completely invent prophets, etc. does sound reasonable to me.
Back to reading other answers. Thus far, most believers seem to have heeded your request. In my experience, "Yada Only" answers often get a lot of non-yada responses.
tehabwa | Jan 27, 2010
Dear children of the most high. (( you will see why i address you as such in a moment : ))
Why ask an athiest for hard evidence?
Everything you see, and taste and touch was Brought into Being by Jesus, Before he was MAN-ifested in the flesh, born of a woman….He was the Only Begotten of the Father of Creation….His Son is the Word of Life which revealed and gave SUBSTANCE to what before was only in his heart….Think about it…Jesus IS what the Father CONCEIVED for ALL in His HEART….He is the Cornerstone of Creation, and the Everlasting Father, LAID Him into Place…When He did something happened…
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?
Concerning these sons of God which the Father brought Job’s mind back to….They ALL SHOUTED FOR JOY……WHY?
Because His Cornerstone was Laid!…. All the Sons of God were Conceived…and brought into alignment with the Headstone….Notice that God said to Job that the morning stars sang TOGETHER….and ALL the sons of God shouted for Joy!
Get your mind out of the gutter, (just good advice, dear ones) and realize that HE is the ROCK His work is Perfect…He is just and Upright, and there IS NO FAULT with Him….He is the Unshakeable Truth….The earth itself trembles and Quakes when he comes near….The HARD EVIDENCE you seek is right here….
He is THE ROCK, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of TRUTH and without iniquity, JUST and RIGHT is he. Deuteronomy 32:4
The Question is NOT if there is a God….the question is….Will we die as mere men???
……though we were intended to be Sons of the most High God>?
PSALMS 82
1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, YE ARE gods, and ALL of YOU are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH…
7 BUT ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes. ((( If you neglect such great salvation that has been offered though the ransom of His Only Son )))
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Notice that though he calls us ALL gods, children of the most high…there are many that will die like mere men…and Notice also that to as many as RECEIVED Him…HE GAVE POWER TO BECOME the SONS OF GOD that He Foreknew, Predestined, Sanctified and Therefore Glorified…Come back into the Light of His Everlasting First and Only LOVE…Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit…
Lastly…there are NO ATHIESTS IN HELL..
Everyone that goes to that place of everlasting torment is reminded moment by moment of How real GOD is Indeed….
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there .
1Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Our God is a consuming Fire
seth | Jan 27, 2010
Terrence Mason